Quote: Originally Posted by l8ter Can anyone tell me why Satan fell from grace exactly and why he is beyond redemption?
If he was by God's side why can he not be forgiven? Surely he did not start out evil but can be forgiven? There would then be no evil in the world.
My anwer; (it may be a bit long).
Genesis 1 v 1 tells us, that God in the beginning made the heaven, the unseenable , the invisible world . The angels were created in this beginning. When God created the heaven, there were soon or somewhat later: the angels . After the invisible world God created the visible world....`the earth´ Job 38 v 4- 7´, partly: " Where were you Job, when I laid the earth´s foundation ..... while the morningstars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy".
All things between God and his angels on that moment were - seemingly- ' hand in glove'. But yet...yet...
Amidst the angels there was one special angel; Ezekiel 28 is telling about him;( v 12) " You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty (13) You were in Eden , the garden of God. Every precious stone adorned you : (...summary...) Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God ; you walked among the fiery stones You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created......".
What a glorious creature, this archangel, this 'guardian cherub' , this so- called 'stadtholder over the angels'. He could not rise further.
Yet .... ( v 15 b) ...." "till wickedness was found in you " and here is a keytext; "16): Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence ....and you sinned...." (Side-remark; there are also many Christians , working very diligent for the Lord, but at last through all their work FOR the Lord forgetting to obey TO him) "So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God and I expelled you , O ...guardian cherub.... from among the fiery stones...." ( marginal note: that's why many people call the devil before his fall: Lucifer, but this has no biblical background) (17) "Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor... ( marginal note: nowadays it could be imagined, that there might be Christians, so richly blessed with spiritual beauty, wisdom and splendor, that they begin to worship this beauty, wisdom and splendor and forget, that it is all grace) "So I ( God) threw you to earth..."
You have now seen, how satan became the origin of sin,. and yet his pitfalls were so actual; - proudness, for what he had got by grace of God - too busy with doing work FOR God and then forgetting to honour God
Isaiah also tells something of this sad story: ( 14 v 12): " How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn ! You have been cast down to the earth ... "You said in your heart: 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. (14) I will ascend above the top of the clouds I will make myself like the Most High"
These words from Isaiah mean this: ....I am an anointed guardian cherub. But I want more. I want to be standing ABOVE the angels, 'the stars of God'. I want to stand above the top of the clouds. For I have shouted for joy, when God made the visible world. But now I know what he meant with all this. He wants us angels, to be SERVANTS...and on that little planet of the plan'' he will make a creature, that becomes a SON. They will be the clouds, in which God dresses himself. Oh...I hate those creatures, even before they are there. I hate God, who wants to make me to a servant of ...of...them...!!!! I want to sit besides God and be his equal. Higher is not possible, but equal....that is my goal.
And when he had done so, he was expelled from heaven. His growing sin inside, (his own responsability, for he, as all the angels knew ervything of God), had now changed in haughtiness. And when he fell on earth, this was his first bad deed: He said: "Ï know that God has not created this 'planet of the plan' to make it a chaos... (Isaiah 45 v 18): "He who fashioned and made the earth , he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, (a chaos), but formed it to be inhabited"
And with his bad forces the devil caused the earth by an enormous explosion to be formless and empty and darkness was over the deep", (Genesis 1 v 2)
(Read furthermore what I have written in 'the Pulpit': the creation.).. But the Lord now uses the devil and his demons, (angels, misled by him and fallen with him) to test all people, whether they are ýes-sayers or no- sayers. And so this biggest of all no-sayers now has a negative task in the plan of God almighty to let it come clear, what is in the deepest heart of all mankind, individually.
The last thing I want to add is this. As I have already said: the angels did know everything. They were with God in his own world. So when they fell, it is unforgivable. But we, mankind know so little. We get many, many chances. And at the end not the devil will sit in the throne besides God. But Jesus is already there And the believers and trusters of God will be with Jesus in the throne of God, (Revelation 3 v 21)
De duivel maakt het mij zo lastig. Hoe moet ik dit duiden
Mein liebes kleines Licht,
Deine Frage;
Bedeutet die Tatsache, dass ich massive Anfechtungen habe im Umkehrschluß, dass ich auf dem richtigen Weg bin und deshalb diese Anfechtungen habe? (Nein, die "gewisse Sache" ist nichts, dass im Gegensatz zu Gottes Wort stünde). Würde der Teufel sich sonst solche Mühe geben, wenn die Sache quasi egal ist?
Meine Antwort:
Du bist auf dem richtigen Weg !!!
Es hat mir sehr viel gut getan das du öffentlich über den Teufel sprachst. Vielleicht ist es auch so, dass in Deutschland weniger Scheu besteht als in Holland um diesen Nahmen zu nenen. Na jah: Epheser 6 v 12 sagt jedenfalls; "Denn wir haben nicht mit Fleisch und Blut zo kämpfen, sondern mit Mächtigen, mit Gewaltigen, nämlich mit den Herren der Welt, die in dieser finsternis herrschen, mit den bösen Geistern unter dem Himmel".
Und was wird der Teufel machen, wenn er sieht, dass einer ernsthaft versucht, den Herrn Jesus zu folgen.
Ja natürlich: dann komt er in Aktion: Alarmfase ROT.
Was doch auch Paulus in Römer 7 behauptet. Der Teufel und seine Demonen aktivieren das Innere des Tapferen und benutzen alle Möglichkeiten, die sie haben um dieses Innere, worin sie geherrscht haben zur Zeit, dass der Kämpfer Gottes noch ihr Eigentum war, um dieses Innere zu benutzen mit allen bösen Dingen von Infektionen und so weiter, die sie in Jahrzehnten haben eingeführt. Paulus hat auch diesen Kamf gekannt , aber er hat schlieszlich rufen können: "Gott ...ich danke dir durch Jesus Christus unsrem Herrn!!!"
Aber....der Teufel ist besiegt , aber er bleibt immer versuchen um zu penetrieren. Das hast du bemerkt. Aber Jakobus 4 v 7 sagt: "Wiederstehet den Teufel , so fliesst er von euch". Und wie wiedersteht man ?; Mit Markus 16 v 17 kann man sagen: " Im Namen Jesum treibe ich jeden bösen Geist aus !!!"
Und was du auch tun könnst. - du bist gerettet durch das Blut Jesum - du bist 'neugeboren' durch das mit offenem Herzen lesen von der Bibel, (1 Petrus 1 v 23)
Aber bist du schon erfüllt mit dem Heiligen Geist, (Apostelgeschichten 19) ??
Wenn du das Glück hast, dann hast du zugleich die Waffenrüstung von Epheser 6 v 13- 18: Herrlich um fertig im Kampf zu stehen: - mit Wahrheit und Gerechtigkeit, ( 14) - mit Fertigsein zum Treiben das Evangelium, ( 15) - mit dem Glaubensschild, (16) - mit dem Helm des Heils, (17) - mit allen den Mitkämfern verbunden durch das Gebet, das einander nie im Stich lasst, (18).
Und so, mein junger Freund in Jesus, ( ich bin 84), wirst du stehen. Und wenn je die Fahne von Jesus durch mich nicht weiter getragen werden kann, weil ich zu höherer Herrlichkeit gerufen bin, dann nimmst du die Fahne in deinen jungen, starken Händen.
Gruss aus Holland, Ger.
Klärchen Lieber Gerritse, vielen Dank für deinen Beitrag, der mir gerade als ich ihn las, sehr geholfen hat. Ich dachte mir, du hast an Kleines Licht geschrieben, aber auch an mich. So sollst du also wissen, dass dein Brief sein Ziel erreicht hat. Liebe Grüße, Klärchen
